Portland Streetcar Update

[pdxstreetcar]

Streetcar Minutes from June 8, 2005

Gibbs Extension Operations to start when Meriwether residents move in (between April 15 - August 15, 2006).

First new streetcar to be delivered June 1, 2006

Aerial Tram & OHSU bldg #1 open Sept. 30, 2006

Questions over how to run service to Gibbs before new cars arrive. Streetcar could open on Sept 30, 2006.

Working on funding for "Lowell Extension (Bancroft)," $13.5 million

Lowell Extension could be finished by Sept 30, 2006. (Gibbs Extension built in 6 months, just needs wire to be strung)

Studies for East Side Streetcar
1. No build
2. Bus circulator
3. Streetcar via MLK/Grand couplet
4. Streetcar via Grand (2-way), new road couplet on 7th/MLK

Possible route would cross the UP rail line by current MLK/Grand Bridges on a new streetcar bridge and connect to the proposed Milwaukie MAX line just south of the OMSI building (yet north of Caruthers Street) on a new RoW. This section by OMSI would be elevated to allow the streetcar & MAX to pass over several rail lines & spurs in the area (plus for the approaches to the future MAX bridge).

Lake Oswego Corridor under study.

[wigwagfan]

Originally Posted by pdxstreetcar

Questions over how to run service to Gibbs before new cars arrive. Streetcar could open on Sept 30, 2006.

Have the Streetcar folks considered swapping crews at the southern terminus for when the operators need their breaks?

Right now, the car just sits there at the end of track while the operator does their thing...On many (not all) routes when TriMet needs to swap operators, there is a designated spot downtown where the new operator simply waits for his bus - when it shows up, the operator swap is done, the bus is moving again after a minute or two, and the old operator either goes on break/lunch/home/catches another bus.

By doing this on the Streetcar, the cars themselves would not layover - a new operator would jump in the cab and take charge, while the old operator would take his break - and 10 minutes or so later, the next car would show up and he'd take it.

Originally Posted by pdxstreetcar

Possible route would cross the UP rail line by current MLK/Grand Bridges on a new streetcar bridge and connect to the proposed Milwaukie MAX line just south of the OMSI building (yet north of Caruthers Street) on a new RoW. This section by OMSI would be elevated to allow the streetcar & MAX to pass over several rail lines & spurs in the area (plus for the approaches to the future MAX bridge).

Whatever happened to the Streetcar going on the Hawthorne Bridge? Not sure why Streetcar needs to go to OMSI - TriMet discontinued its OMSI bus due to very low (virtually no) ridership, and it just connected downtown to OMSI and nothing else.

[F40PHR231]

Originally Posted by wigwagfan

Have the Streetcar folks considered swapping crews at the southern terminus for when the operators need their breaks?

Whatever happened to the Streetcar going on the Hawthorne Bridge? Not sure why Streetcar needs to go to OMSI - TriMet discontinued its OMSI bus due to very low (virtually no) ridership, and it just connected downtown to OMSI and nothing else.

Regarding breaks, they already swap operators when the streetcar passes the carbarn as it makes its way up Northrup or down Lovejoy. Yes, there is no station, but the streetcar stops right there to swap operators.

As for OMSI, at least they're looking at the big picture, Portland wants to redo the whole district there, so why run it down Hawthorne and pass up another potentially great district?

[wigwagfan]

Originally Posted by F40PHR231

As for OMSI, at least they're looking at the big picture, Portland wants to redo the whole district there, so why run it down Hawthorne and pass up another potentially great district?

To eliminate another confusing (and expensive) track routing, similar to what exists around PSU.

Hawthorne Blvd. is already a HUGE transit generator - a straight shot from downtown to 42nd Avenue makes plenty of sense (witness the #14 Hawthorne bus, which runs past 2:00 AM and is a frequent service route seven days a week). OMSI is NOT a transit generator (witness the re-routing of the #63 bus which was originally conceived to connect the Zoo and OMSI when it moved, then changing to the #83 bus, which connected OMSI with downtown, and then eliminated altogether).

[pdxstreetcar]

I dont think the streetcar is going out of its way to serve OMSI but rather would pass by it on its proposed east side loop going over the future Caruthers Street MAX Bridge, up/down MLK/Grand then back over the river on the Broadway Bridge.

I saw a proposal for the OMSI area at the NRHS convention. There would be a new home for the 4449 & SPS 700 plus other locomotives at a new "interpretive center" across the street from OMSI by the PGE substation. This museum should start gaining momentum when/if the UP donates the land. In addition the MAX line going over the Caruthers bridge would pass by the south end of OMSI on an elevated line before joining the UP RoW to Milwaukie. The Streetcar would share the bridge and elevated track by OMSI then cross over the UP line and run north to the Lloyd. There are plans for mixed use condominium and apartment buildings around OMSI down the road and will likely start to appear once the Milwaukie MAX line opens in about 8 years (assuming everything stays on schedule).

[wigwagfan]

MAX and Streetcar sharing the Caruthers Street Bridge?!!!

That only begs the question, why are we spending millions to rebuild the Transit Mall to accomodate MAX, when we can use the existing Streetcar line for MAX (since a Streetcar only chugs along every 10-15 minutes, there's room for 2-3 MAX trains inbetween!) The platforms would need rebuilt, but the rest of the infrastructure already exists...

Secondly, we already spent a pretty penny on rehabbing the Hawthorne Bridge with the explicit desire to run LRVs on it in the future, now that extra cost is to be thrown away in favor of a new bridge costing hundreds of millions of dollars? Meanwhile, we are still trying to figure out how to fix the Sellwood Bridge, we have a bunch of Budd RDCs lying around and a virtually unused (two train-a-day at night) railroad bridge that could host a railroad shuttle at very low cost. Even a RDC moving across that bridge at 15 MPH could beat an automobile which has to take the long way around.

[wigwagfan]

Originally Posted by abcraghead

I think PNWR would beg to differ. For one, the track is *not* rated to host passenger trains.

So, the Tillamook District from Willsburg Junction to Cook is FRA Excepted Track?

Passenger trains CAN move on any "class" of track, OTHER than FRA Excepted Track. Thus, my comparison that a Budd RDC moving at 15 MPH (which is the maximum authorized speed for passenger trains on Class 1 track).

Back to the Hawthorne Bridge vs. Caruthers Bridge - even if the Hawthorne wasn't upgraded to accomodate LRVs in the future, it would still be cheaper to use an existing bridge than to build a new bridge. Look at Westside MAX - what, 1/3rd of the entire cost of the project was devoted to three miles of track - the West Hills Tunnel (now the Robertson Tunnel).

Why couldn't MAX use the Streetcar track, the portion on 10th/11th Avenues only - with a new turnaround at the north end of the couplet for MAX trains only, and a new alignment at the south end that would be MAX compatible (for curvature)? The only other "incompatibility" is the platforms, which can be easily rectified (TriMet had to rebuild all of the platforms on the Eastside line to accomodate the 200 series cars). The track gauge and electrical systems are compatible (Streetcars have operated on the MAX line, and the Vintage Trolleys can operate on either system). They use the same signalling system. And MAX operators operate the Streetcar so there is already cross-training going on.

[pdxstreetcar]

As far as I know the main reason for not using the Hawthorne Bridge is because the MAX line would miss PSU, South Auditorium and RiverPlace... all important dense neighborhoods/areas. AORTA really pushed hard for a MAX line a few years back (I think it was North/South) that would run over the Hawthorne Bridge then run up 1st Ave to the existing MAX line. TriMet was against the shorter 1st Ave. route because it would miss the main dense office corridor centered around the transit mall.

Using the Hawthorne Bridge would impact the auto traffic patterns on the bridge and Multnomah Co. was against closing the bridge so shortly after the major repairs in the late 90s.

The proposed 1970s Oregon City/Park Place light rail line would have run across the center lanes of the Hawthorne Bridge and would have been exclusive transit lanes.

[pdxstreetcar]

Apparently the streetcar did a test run today on the new Gibbs extension. I went down today around 12:30pm and think I just missed it.

Construction update:
"Signal installation. Streetcar testing scheduled for Wednesday, August 10.
Traffic Impact: None"

Also Sellwood (via Sellwood Bridge) & Hollywood (via Broadway) Streetcar Extensions are in discussion.

[wigwagfan]

Originally Posted by pdxstreetcar

Also Sellwood (via Sellwood Bridge) & Hollywood (via Broadway) Streetcar Extensions are in discussion.

I wonder about the Sellwood Bridge - since the Sellwood neighborhood is pushing for the replacement bridge to be only two lanes. Can the Streetcar do 35 miles an hour?